In the previous message, we sorted out which nation was Ephraim and which nation was Manasseh. Some BI groups claim the United States became greater than Britain and her colonies ever did, and thus the United States must be Ephraim (the "many nations" part of the prophecy gets redirected to mean "many states", even though we profess to be "One nation under God"). In addition, critics of BI make this a thorn in the flesh of those of us who defend what was taught all along because of the seeming role reversal.
Ol' Liaf here appeared to wiggle out of this dilemma by saying the United States is under Manasseh's realm and ideology while people of Ephraim and other tribes for that matter reside in the United States, hence having one's cake (many nations) and eating it, too (keeping the population). I want the readers out there to know that I stand by what I said. This is not manipulation. There is NOTHING in the Bible that says it cannot be as we said. On the contrary, the Bible supports it. Let me demonstrate.
If we turn to Genesis 49:22 we read:
Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall.
We always taught this was one of the verses that indicate colonists coming out of Britain, especially the people of the United States. This is true. However, what does the verse say? Does is say Ephraim is fruitful bough? Or does it say Manasseh is a fruitful bough? No, it says Joseph is a fruitful bough. When we say Joseph, we must understand this can include Ephraim and Manasseh collectively. This is further demonstrated by the passage in Isaiah 49:20:
The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.
If we apply this passage to the house of Israel (and we dealt with this beforehand in a 2003 message) we notice that they lost a child (the United States) and the subsequent remaining children (of Ephraim) will again say they are too many! Consequently, Britain had to further colonize, and many came over here to the United States. Some of the royalist settlers here in the United States south of the pilgrims outnumbered them by about 2:1. In addition, other British religious colonies moved to the United States after the original settlers. I really think the "Ephraim ideology" for want of a better term almost created another nation here on this soil. The pilgrims would have still had offspring, and there would have still been a United (Union) States of America (a.k.a. Manasseh) but with a Great Confederate Nation (Ephraim) in the south. But Ephraim already had her many nations, and God wanted ONE Nation (Manasseh's destiny) and that would include people of all nations as well. Indeed, we stated that many peoples of the world that settled here in the United States could be Israelites (and therefore one does not know who their brother may be), but we never said this would mean everyone living here was an Israelite by blood. Quite obviously, the United States is a mixture of peoples, and hence Ephraim is included.
OK--- so Genesis allows for BOTH Ephraim and Manasseh to flow over the wall and Isaiah's children break away and AGAIN there is a population explosion of the people the "OTHER" broke away from. Makes perfect sense. What else does the Bible say?
In Hosea 7:8 we read:
Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people.
Yep! That's Britain all right with their colonies; mixing more so with the people of the world than the United States has diversity. It stands to reason their colonies also started over here--- but God said, "No! The United States was to be that ONE NATION promised to Jacob with all Israelites, including Ephraim." (just as in the old days as promised in Genesis 35:11). Ephraim already was becoming a company of nations. We needed some of them in the great nation part of the prophecy as well as fulfilled by Manasseh.
However, during the latter days, Ephraim, being the "natural-type model", was to fade, and the spiritual was to come later (United States). Notice the Bible says in Isaiah 28:1:
Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
So in addition to considering who is Ephraim, and who is Manasseh, we must understand that Ephraim was to fade--- the British Empire encompassed about a quarter of the world's population at one time (Numbers 23:10) but the Empire status waned by the world wars. This is not a cop-out. This happened, but as the Bible says they will fade. There is nothing to my knowledge that requires each one's climax to take place in the same time in history, and on the contrary, the Bible tells us otherwise. Unless the United States will start doing what Britain did, it is a fact that the Empire once achieved (relatively speaking) greater feats than the United States ever did. In absolute terms, the United States is now greater due to the general world population increase and technological advances. Any dinky nation of today could defeat the once mighty Roman Empire if they were to go back in time with their war machines. But that does not mean that dinky nation of today (relatively speaking) was ever an empire. So in absolute terms, even small nations are now greater, but they are not empires. Likewise, the fact that the United States is "greater" is only in absolute terms, but does not mean it achieved the Empire status Britain once had.
I find it interesting that Ephraim IS NOT mentioned as one of the twelve tribes sealed in Revelation, and yet Manasseh and Joseph are. I do not really know why that is, other than the fact Ephraim may have waned and become so apostate, that those of Ephraim sealed would have been included in the "Joseph" part of the nation, i.e., the United States which is also Manasseh. The people of Joseph are sealed, but the tribe of Manasseh is also sealed making it seem like a double blessing (or portion) on this great nation of the United States, a reversal from Ephraim's previous role. So for whatever reason, that passage in and of itself definitely implies that Ephraim's heyday was past, and Joseph (which flowed over the wall) and Manasseh (the Great Nation in prophecy) were to come LATER.
In all this, you must admit that yes, the United States can be politically Manasseh and peopled by Manasseh, but I find nothing that requires only Manassehites to be in this nation. And likewise, Ephraim did become that company of nations politically, but so what if many people of Ephraim moved to Manasseh's political realm? You still have a people with their own nation, and a multitude of nations as expressed in what was once called the British Commonwealth of Nations.
