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By Liaf
I thought I'd clear something up now; the issue of hell. Several times you heard me teach in a fit of anger about a person "dancing eternally on a lake of fire" or "turning up the thermostat to hell" or something similar. That's because I have a mean streak in me at times and is more wishful thinking on my part. In reality, I think it will please my COG and British-Israel friends by saying regarding Hell, I am with John Stott and E.W. Bullinger on that one. I use the word "eternal fire" in the same manner as the bible mentions (more on that shortly).
But, before I continue, I regretfully say to these same friends that I am still with E.W. Bullinger on the Church's Rapture timing before the Great Tribulation. I already did some logic messages regarding the contradictions that arise with a post-trib rapture. But in a nutshell (I use that word a lot don't I?), the reason I believe it happens beforehand is because, like Bullinger, I take a dispensational stand on the bible, or different "ages". Most here will agree that Old Testament Saints, such as the Patriarchs and prophets are different than the church, right? (Likewise, the church per se is not Israel, but includes many from Israel.) They were under the Old Covenant of the Law yet with regards to the fact that Christ had not been revealed in the flesh yet, nor instituted the New Covenant. The Holy Spirit was not given yet. Likewise, I see the church, the body of Christ, as those who will rule and reign over the world in the millennium when a greater salvation will come to the masses. These are a few "called out" ones, a special bride of Christ. Right now, only a few are called--- this is not meant to be "get everyone saved" program. That will happen later. Thus, these few called ones are different than the Tribulation Saints, especially the 144,000 special ones who will also have a place to rule in the Kingdom. The problem with the timing of the rapture (and also the resurrection of the church saints) occurs when we group them the same as those in the Tribulation instead of seeing them differently as I do. But these Tribulation Saints have their place, and the church has theirs. So, in that respect, the rapture and resurrection controversy is just a timing issue as far as I am concerned, but the end result and purpose is the same. And on that note, just because I agree with the timing of the rapture with many mainline ministries, I do not want people out there to lump me in with the likes of these mainline "rapture-ready" evangelistic ministries. You don't realize how much they already detest me as a heretic. And on another note, I believe in MORE THAN ONE rapture anyway. Now, how many do you hear teaching that these days? But there is going to be some sort of rapture. I won't "disfellowship" any people who believe in a rapture timing otherwise, or even if they don't believe in one at all (as long as I'm extended the same courtesy since I have what I consider biblical reasons expressed in the end times messages). But for me, I know that a few raptures happened already. And besides, I'm a bit of a conspiracy theory person--- I'm always happy when we talk about Genesis 6 angelic-human hybrids, UFO's, Big Foot, Nephilim and the like at any party or gathering I have here. So that fits right in with "abduction" stuff. That's where I'm coming from---- except God knows who His is to "abduct".
Now…. What the hell was I originally talking about? Oh yeah, that's right. HELL. Well, when we talk about hell… that did not come out quite right. ;-) Let's quote what a scary evangelist will quote from Matthew before the altar call,
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!"
Yes! Everlasting fire! Where a merciful God will send you to writhe in unfathomable pain forever and ever and ever, Amen and Amen. But is that what the bible teaches? Before we get on the subject of that, we have to consider there is one other doctrine that is (even subconsciously) assumed to be correct for hell to be a state of conscious, eternal torment: that of the immortality of the human soul. Is the human soul immortal? The devil seems to think so when he said to Eve,
Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Actually Satan was correct! But he said that of the WRONG TREE. God wanted them to eat from the Tree of Life. Had they eaten from that tree, they would not have died! They would have had eternal life. They would have eyes to see spiritual things, and being as God they certainly (now having God's Spirit) would know good from evil. They would have been Spiritually empowered by God (like being in grace). Instead, Eve was enticed to eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which, like a type of Law, was only kept by flesh power. The Law is Spiritual and perfect, but the ability to keep it by just knowing of it on one's own power brings what? God said it…..
….for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt SURELY DIE
What does Satan say?
Ye shall not surely die!
And thus, the rest is the history of the birth of the belief in an "immortal soul" without regards to Scripture that says,
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
So, man is not inherently immortal. When he dies, he dies and has no further living existence until the resurrection. Jesus said in John 5 (as does the book of Daniel) that both the just and unjust would be raised. The righteous will inherit eternal life; the unrighteous will be destroyed in the lake of fire.
When I read the apocryphal book of Enoch, I seem to remember a passage regarding the Genesis 6 incident where Enoch warned the sinning angels not to marry human women. They were mortal beings whereas angels were immortal.
Here comes a grave evangelist: Don't listen to Liaf! He's an "annihilationist"!"
Let's see. I'll look up annihilate in my dictionary. It says…
Destroy completely, as if down to the roots.
Now, let's quote our famous John 3:16 that we all learned as children. It says….
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not spend an eternal, conscious torment in hell, but have everlasting life.
Is that what it says? Of course not! Let's get this right this time…. Straight from Jesus' mouth!
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Let's look up the word perish in Strong's:
to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose)
Wait a minute! That definition is almost verbatim from my dictionary! Oh Jesus , sweet Jesus! Even you are an "annihilationist"!
I even heard people say, "We all have eternal LIFE. It's WHERE are you going to spend it?". Then they are admitting there is never any death, even if we "redefine" death to now mean conscious, eternal torment, they made the Freudian slip of calling that "Life". So, much like the devil, they don't really believe you shall die, but just call it that so that the words "perish" and "death" now mean something else and so that it seemingly does not contradict the bible.
What about "everlasting fire"? Or where the "worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched"? How about the "smoke of their torment rises forever and ever?" (or something like that). Does that not imply it lasts forever? John Stott considered the Greek meaning of that adjective "everlasting". He's a better Greek scholar than I am, but his point seems unarguable. The word everlasting when used as this adjective means the results, as opposed to the continual condition. In other words, the action of the fire is everlasting, and the smoke shows it has done its job. Likewise, fire that is not quenched is not abated, nor the worms (maggots) won't die until they consume the flesh (Jesus was alluding to the valley of Hinnom, at the dump of course). Now, if fire and worms go on eternally, they are not doing their job. So, the word everlasting is not referencing the continual condition, but rather the end result. Even Jude 1:7 says,
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
See what I mean? They suffered eternal fire. But there's no fire today burning there. Rather, they have been annihilated in a fire that consumed them eternally, thus "eternal fire". Once one's lights have been put out in such a fire, there's no coming back.
Ask any evangelist what the penalty for is for sin if one dies in it. He will say one will burn forever and ever. So, that's the cost to pay for a finite sin is infinite torment, right? Right! He will say. Ask him now if Jesus paid your price for your sin? Amen, yes! Well then where is Jesus today? If he took the penalty for my sin, he should still be in hell today yet, either that or cast into the lake of fire like all the other sinners forever and ever. You can't pay off an infinite time debt with finite time. But it seems to me that the torment of the cross and his death was enough to satisfy God, and it took only 3 days no less, but for an unrepentant sinner he must burn for eternity? (In my opinion, the length of time of a sinner in torment won't exceed Jesus' time in the grave, but that's just my opinion. The reason I say this is because if one suffered in torment of the lake of fire longer, than he has "one-upmanship" on Jesus.)
When we look up the word "forever" such as in Revelation 20:10, we find that the words "forever and ever" is translated from the Greek word "aion" which is where we get our word "eon" from. It means for as long as it lasts, for that age. In this chapter, we have the Great White Throne Judgment, and the heavens and Earth melt away with fervent heat as Peter says, so this is the lake of fire as God destroys fully all sin at the end of time.
We here at eternalthroneofdavid site we teach in an "eternal" throne that lasts "forever". But the implication is until the end of the age. E.g. in Psalms 89 it says:
His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
Of course the sun and moon will not go on forever, and this idea in and of itself proves that "forever" means continuous and uninterrupted from the time that the covenant was uttered, and not starting at some future time in some other age when the sun and moon no longer exist. (Thus if I may say on a side note here that blows the theory that the eternal Davidic Covenant is allowed to have interruptions because it will be eternal the day Christ comes back.)
The Bible says in Revelation 21:5:
Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
All things will be created new. And again, the Greek word for that is a new age, and this is also the last age to go on forever (or for aion). These "eons" never end as they are the last and final age. The eons in the lake of fire was in the age of judgment. Again, aion does mean "eternal" or I should say continuous for as long as the age lasts.
If all things are made new, then if the devil, his angels and people are screaming in hell instead of annihilated, then this would not be a "new" age with no more sorrow or suffering. If suffering were allowed to continue forever, then God has reneged on his promise, and an element of the old age is still in effect as there would be reminder for sin from an age that has passed. Likewise, as I stated earlier, we would not be with Jesus because the penalty paid for our sins would be equal, i.e. Jesus would be in eternal torment in hell.
I hope this message clears up this pagan doctrine of burning eternally in hell. Since ol' Liaf here believes in conspiracies and the Illuminati, it makes one wonder what other fear-mongering doctrines there are out there to keep people in bondage from this filthy crowd. It's amazing how far off the edge people go, and the establishment, and they don't even realize they are totally nuts. After all, I don't take kindly to people that go off the deep end, don't even realize it, and then impose that on another. This message was not a very detailed one, but it brought up the main points that one can research for themselves and find that the bible does not teach an eternal, conscious torment in hell. Now….. before I sign off this message, just because someone does not burn eternally, I would say how long it will be to put out one's lights. So, I am not saying even if annihilated is going to be a picnic before ceasing to exist. One may be beaten with "many stripes" while another "a few" to apply that other parable here. There are degrees of punishment, and perhaps lengths. But if one burns eternally, then the degree is the same for everyone, which the Bible definitely does not teach.